NYrepublican

Abortion poll

Abortion poll   32 members have voted

  1. 1. Should abortion be legal?

    • Abortion should be legal in all cases
    • Abortion should be legal in most cases
    • Abortion should be legal in some cases
    • Abortion should never be legal
  2. 2. Is abortion moral?

    • Abortion is morally wrong
    • Abortion is morally acceptable
    • Abortion isn't a moral issue

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37 posts in this topic

I chose my specific methodology for a reason.

This is the PEW methodology.

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No, that's not a mistake: I think abortion is morally wrong, but I also think that imposing my morals on other people who do not share them is even more morally wrong. IIRC, I'm joined by Joe Biden, John Kerry, and Tim Kaine on this one.

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44 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Don't get me started here, because,, as with many issues, my opinions here are not, at their roots or full scope, limited just to the topic at hand. I'd have a hard time addressing this issue without in the wider scope of affairs.

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Don't get me started here, because,, as with many issues, my opinions here are not, at their roots or full scope, limited just to the topic at hand. I'd have a hard time addressing this issue without in the wider scope of affairs.

I used the phrasing Pew Research used.

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I can't answer the second question on this poll. You're taking a complex issue and trying to make it black and white. Sometimes it's morally wrong, sometimes it isn't (in my opinion, of course).

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49 minutes ago, President Garrett Walker said:

No, that's not a mistake: I think abortion is morally wrong, but I also think that imposing my morals on other people who do not share them is even more morally wrong. IIRC, I'm joined by Joe Biden, John Kerry, and Tim Kaine on this one.

^

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15 minutes ago, jnewt said:

I can't answer the second question on this poll. You're taking a complex issue and trying to make it black and white. Sometimes it's morally wrong, sometimes it isn't (in my opinion, of course).

Every pollster wants to make every issue black-and-white nowadays. Black-and-white socio-political opinions, statements, loyalties, and proposed solutions are more and more praised these days, despite being highly unrealistic, unproductive, and even destructive as a general nature.

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I answered that it's not a moral issue to me because almost all legal issues are moral to some extent.  You can have something be a moral issue but not a legal issue (i.e. marijuana), but not the reverse.  That's why I also answered "legal in some cases".  But they have to be clearly defined, such as rape, incest, health of the mother, and only during the first month.  If you say it's a moral issue then that's a paradox because morality can't be codified in law.  I lean left on many social issues because at the end of the day, it's wrong to try to make moral decisions legal or illegal, it's the actions that count.

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1. Some Cases

2. Morally Wrong

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13 hours ago, President Garrett Walker said:

No, that's not a mistake: I think abortion is morally wrong, but I also think that imposing my morals on other people who do not share them is even more morally wrong. IIRC, I'm joined by Joe Biden, John Kerry, and Tim Kaine on this one.

Same. Raised in a fairly religious household, and was taught that abortion is wrong since life is a gift from God. Yet I can't, on good conscience, restrict someone from having one. It's a difficult decision that I'm thankful that I haven't yet had to be part of, plus how can I enforce a policy solely based on my faith?

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Sociologically this is an interesting question.

In France the National Assembly voted in 2014 a motion which says that abortion is a fundamental right.

But in USA some societal issues which have been raised after the question of abortion are less discussed today than abortion like same sex marriage.

The debate about abortion seems to divide people still today in America and doesn't really elvolve with the decades.

Interesting to see it, I can understand the point of those in america who are against, but in the Western others countries there are less oppositions against abortion.

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It definitely needs to be restricted until people can actually spell pregnant:lol:

 

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1 hour ago, NYrepublican said:

It definitely needs to be restricted until people can actually spell pregnant

 

Are you for restrictions of civil rights by level of education?

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

Are you for restrictions of civil rights by level of education?

Sorry,I forgot the LOL emoji

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4 minutes ago, Patine said:

Are you for restrictions of civil rights by level of education?

More importantly, killing babies is not a civil right.

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1 minute ago, NYrepublican said:

More importantly, killing babies is not a civil right.

But what about the power of a pregnant woman over her body during pregnancy - or is she, like many social conservatives seem to imply - just the "vessel to deliver the child" with no choice in the matter once conception occurs - that an unborn child with no name, identity, personality, education, or any other such status takes utter precedent over a woman with all those things in terms of "rights."

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1 minute ago, Patine said:

But what about the power of a pregnant woman over her body during pregnancy - or is she, like many social conservatives seem to imply - just the "vessel to deliver the child" with no choice in the matter once conception occurs - that an unborn child with no name, identity, personality, education, or any other such status takes utter precedent over a woman with all those things in terms of "rights."

1.(a loosely related point) An abortion can result in medical complications later in life; the risk of ectopic pregnancies doubles, and the chance of a miscarriage and pelvic inflammatory disease also increases.

2.Contraception exists for a reason if she really didn't want to be pregnant.Or if that's impossible it can be done through abstinence.

3.Many abortion patients are people young in years who don't fully understand what they're doing and later regret it , you can find many examples of this online.

4.No civilized society has allowed the taking of a human life without punishment,why should abortion be different.

5."an unborn child with no name, identity, personality, education, or any other such status" - so you're saying that someone's worth is determined by their societal contributions?

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On number 4, here, we have to look at things in the broad sense, especially a big source of hypocrisy about those social conservatives who call themselves "pro-life," and what else they tend to support. Most social conservatives (especially in the United States, but in many other countries as well), often vehemently fight tooth-and-nail for the guarantee and preservation of life - until someone is actually born, that is. Then, for a very significant part, they don't give a damn! In fact, many socially and fiscally conservative policies create numerous more opportunities for death - often in fairly gruesome and ignominious ways - whether directly, indirectly, or by simple inaction - mostly for those who are poor are inconvenient (the biggest demographic you find abortions among, in fact). This double standard has ALWAYS dropped the respectability and integrity of the majority of the pro-life movement in my mind. Because, to be honest, they aren't pro-life - the label is a lie - they're just strictly anti-abortion, but have no problem at all with any other form of death caused by them or their policies in some way at all.

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22 minutes ago, Patine said:

On number 4, here, we have to look at things in the broad sense, especially a big source of hypocrisy about those social conservatives who call themselves "pro-life," and what else they tend to support. Most social conservatives (especially in the United States, but in many other countries as well), often vehemently fight tooth-and-nail for the guarantee and preservation of life - until someone is actually born, that is. Then, for a very significant part, they don't give a damn! In fact, many socially and fiscally conservative policies create numerous more opportunities for death - often in fairly gruesome and ignominious ways - whether directly, indirectly, or by simple inaction - mostly for those who are poor are inconvenient (the biggest demographic you find abortions among, in fact). This double standard has ALWAYS dropped the respectability and integrity of the majority of the pro-life movement in my mind. Because, to be honest, they aren't pro-life - the label is a lie - they're just strictly anti-abortion, but have no problem at all with any other form of death caused by them or their policies in some way at all.

Capitalism has lifted more people out fo poverty then other economic policies like socialism(https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21578665-nearly-1-billion-people-have-been-taken-out-extreme-poverty-20-years-world-should-aim)

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25 minutes ago, Patine said:

On number 4, here, we have to look at things in the broad sense, especially a big source of hypocrisy about those social conservatives who call themselves "pro-life," and what else they tend to support. Most social conservatives (especially in the United States, but in many other countries as well), often vehemently fight tooth-and-nail for the guarantee and preservation of life - until someone is actually born, that is. Then, for a very significant part, they don't give a damn! In fact, many socially and fiscally conservative policies create numerous more opportunities for death - often in fairly gruesome and ignominious ways - whether directly, indirectly, or by simple inaction - mostly for those who are poor are inconvenient (the biggest demographic you find abortions among, in fact). This double standard has ALWAYS dropped the respectability and integrity of the majority of the pro-life movement in my mind. Because, to be honest, they aren't pro-life - the label is a lie - they're just strictly anti-abortion, but have no problem at all with any other form of death caused by them or their policies in some way at all.

did you forget about number 5?

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15 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

Capitalism has lifted more people out fo poverty then other economic policies like socialism(https://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21578665-nearly-1-billion-people-have-been-taken-out-extreme-poverty-20-years-world-should-aim)

Why are we talking about capitalism versus socialism? You obviously don't understand what I'm referring to.

 

15 minutes ago, NYrepublican said:

did you forget about number 5?

I was referring to here about the belief that a woman has to abdicate the control of significant functions of her own body for a lifeform that has yet to verifiably achieve sentience or any other proven full and complete human traits, but instead be obliged to regard those functions of her as a "vessel of deliverance," no longer under her power as a sovereign person for the duration of the pregnancy.

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16 minutes ago, Patine said:

I was referring to here about the belief that a woman has to abdicate the control of significant functions of her own body for a lifeform that has yet to verifiably achieve sentience or any other proven full and complete human traits, but instead be obliged to regard those functions of her as a "vessel of deliverance," no longer under her power as a sovereign person for the duration of the pregnancy.

Just because someone hasn't accomplished anything they're automatically worthless and deserve death? That's the logic many suicidal people use just saying.

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